Why Are They Even Together? Two Films on Modern Relationships

00:00:00: I never usually have these thoughts, but how did they meet?

00:00:04: Like why are they doing this?

00:00:05: you know what i

00:00:07: mean.

00:00:07: This is also a problem like in general films about relationships where there's an establishing shot that just says here's why their together.

00:00:18: now we're gonna move on and were never going to prove that they have something together.

00:00:22: You just have to take it as a given because we told you, but there are two other and I am like no It should be believable Like it shouldn't feel like our relationship

00:00:32: But not even interrelationship.

00:00:36: We're in the relationship!

00:00:37: You know what i mean?

00:00:39: It doesn't matter if their an official relationships Just means They are drawn together Have some kind of bond.

00:00:45: What's nature of this bond?

00:00:47: I don't know if you can hear this on the recording, but while i'm doing this rant about love there's like church bells in the background.

00:00:55: Is it for going to every time?

00:00:57: Every day at noon and that church bells ring out over lousets or plots?

00:01:01: And um This is as if

00:01:03: we're getting married from jackabin.

00:01:05: We're

00:01:05: recording

00:01:13: for a recording from the city hall.

00:01:16: by

00:01:19: the

00:01:21: way shoutout to them despite both being about modern relationships.

00:01:26: The drama, by Norwegian director Christopher Borbley is an American romantic comedy about a couple in the week before their wedding when one of them reveals a shocking secret... ...the other film Allegro Pastel by German director Anna Rollo is adapted from a two-thousand and twenty bestselling novel by Lifehunt.

00:01:46: It features a Berlin couple in their thirties that are in open relationship can't quite commit eachother and also cannot figure out why.

00:01:56: Today, Lauren Orta & I talk about how these two films from two cultures describe the predicament of being in love at an age with both too many options and shrinking futures.

00:02:07: Enjoy this show!

00:02:14: And the whole point of this film is about like, The Narrative Of One's Life.

00:02:22: and how does that intertwine with a narrative of relationship?

00:02:26: That means it's quite fun engaging films to watch.

00:02:31: Allegro Pastel... ...is kind of rudderless contemporary existence in which there are no narratives whatsoever so they're not stakes either or in the relationship that it's depicting,

00:02:49: right?

00:02:49: Is it because the characters are sort of like afraid based on the emails and text messages that two characters write to each other.

00:03:00: Because they're in a kind of long distance

00:03:02: relationship?

00:03:03: In mid-distance, let's say.

00:03:05: A Deutsche Bahn...

00:03:07: Deutsche Bahn mediated a relationship between Frankfurt and Berlin—a line I personally often take.

00:03:15: So Tanja has this line where she says… And I think she writes it to Rome.

00:03:24: beautiful, but not existential.

00:03:28: First of all it's like a misunderstanding.

00:03:30: I don't want to be nitpicky or pedantic But what does existential mean here?

00:03:34: Like...I wanted our relationship to be light and beautiful And have no significance.

00:03:43: How is that possible?

00:03:44: Maybe

00:03:44: no consequence?

00:03:45: maybe No consequence something the movie has been criticized for.

00:03:51: i actually watched Together with my partner and we were.

00:03:55: coincidentally there was a group of three people that We knew they went with us to the theater.

00:03:59: One Of them Was an interview contributor But who wants To stay anonymous?

00:04:05: And these Three hated The movie so much

00:04:09: I also Hated it

00:04:11: So much.

00:04:12: one of Them even had two leave the theater in the middle of it.

00:04:18: And they were so terribly triggered, which I had a hard time understanding actually because I enjoyed and will explain why but... They were triggered by the male character who is this web designer guy in his relationship with The Woman He Meets In Berlin But then at same starting like a side thing or side affair school crush.

00:04:46: It's really sweet, actually that he means the nicest part of the movie.

00:04:50: and they had a huge issue with this guy who is never going to commit to anything was Never Going To express any strong feelings And always wants to keep his options open in that I understood.

00:05:06: Actually They Had dated too many Of those types but i think if That Is The case then This is A huge.

00:05:13: it's A great Achievement of realism.

00:05:15: Yeah, but I also actually think that's a miss.

00:05:17: i mean maybe you're wrong But I think That's a complete misreading over the film because The person who can't commit to anything is tanya the woman and she Is the fuck?

00:05:24: She's the kind Of like like rudderless Like aimless person And what she has this her career but Her books are not that interesting To me.

00:05:31: and and she's like You know bopping around and she wants to text This guy in frankfort.

00:05:38: she doesn't seem to be particularly, like concerned about whether they see each other very often or what their relationship means.

00:05:46: And then she starts having an affair with a guy that her friend was sleeping with as well and it's...

00:05:53: So she is actually

00:05:55: the one- I'm not No One Is The Bad!

00:05:56: Like noone does anything so bad.

00:05:58: but the idea of being this guy who can't commit to any thing just wrong in his case.

00:06:05: It's

00:06:05: wrong at first cheats on him.

00:06:09: If cheating is the right term here, so they are... They don't even officialize that it's an open relationship but what do I think is that they formulate their feelings in such a way as not to overstep the liberty of others.

00:06:31: also have other things going?

00:06:34: I think also if you wanna bring it back to these two films, like the way that America... If your talking about again where are we gonna do American-European essentializing and stereotyping.

00:06:43: But the kind of stereotypical poly open relationship structure is like You have a lot rules And when talk about what they're allowed or not articulate their feelings for each other in these somewhat tedious emails and text messages?

00:07:10: They also do it.

00:07:11: But

00:07:12: if the feelings are not like large, Like the feeling is they're not supposed to guide or form a structure of relationship whereas my philosophy on relationships structures Is that you should take the feelings And then decide how you want to engage with them based on the feelings.

00:07:31: And then if you interpret the film that way, while they're feeling so just not as strong.

00:07:36: So they don't really care about hurting each other They don't like seeing one another You know?

00:07:44: I think more than anything and thats why i wanted to bring these two films.

00:07:49: in contrast My impression was actually would like feel more.

00:07:55: They are generally love story and it shows in the way they write to each other.

00:08:03: Yes, I think that's true

00:08:04: but They live under these sort of like implicit social rule or their own anxieties over whatever It is.

00:08:11: That's sort of Like hinders them from really engaging into an existential And In that Way transformative for Each Other type Of Relationship.

00:08:22: yes and there's a moment They're afraid and There's A Moment yeah and in That Way it's totally undramatic.

00:08:32: The absolute opposite of the drama,

00:08:35: yes they don't want to get into this situation that the drama represents

00:08:39: and conflicts

00:08:40: are about.

00:08:40: what are the conflict?

00:08:41: Well the conflicts is for example about the fact she sleeps with another guy This party guy who actually her best friend has a crush on.

00:08:50: so She's managing to mess up both her friendship With the Best Friend And Her Relationship and Jerome is really upset about it.

00:09:02: Is he really upset?

00:09:03: I think so,

00:09:03: yeah.

00:09:05: There's no- What does really-.

00:09:06: And then Jerome makes this- It's summertime and she has other thing with the other guy... ...and Jerome in a way sort of processes it overcomes his disappointment that he made this stringent summer plan working out His runs.

00:09:25: Running in the outskirts of Frankfurt with a skylight, and he also gets really serious about his web design projects.

00:09:33: I mean we can make fun of him like being a web designer

00:09:38: but

00:09:39: i think he has this very very... With means that are available to him He is upset and disappointed probably cannot get to the point of admitting it himself him struggling a little bit.

00:09:52: Yeah, and I would say also just if you compare the film in the book... In the book he's a much more interesting character and a much dynamic character.

00:09:59: He has many more charms.

00:10:01: Antonia is similar to both of them because she somewhat resistant to like self-knowledge even though she purports to engage in practices that generate Self knowledge, but he's actually kind of like She ends up very confused about or she feels quite bad for example That she has hooked up with this guy that her friend is in love With.

00:10:24: and she's like But why have I done you know should they go to temple half a feltin?

00:10:28: Like the friend is like like rolling her eyes about Tanya's kind of self-involved recursive apologetics that she performs, right?

00:10:36: So Tanya I think is a more interesting character.

00:10:38: There's

00:10:38: a great line there and by the way it's really funny movie.

00:10:41: It's not a real funny

00:10:44: movie!

00:10:44: The reason... can i just correct the record before we move on because you were like oh my this woman I know almost walked out when she did walkout Because she was triggered..I almost walked Out because I found it so boring and tedious And I felt like I don't like to engage in armchair, medical diagnosis talk.

00:10:59: But I was really like do i have ADHD because I cannot sit in this fucking movie chair any longer?

00:11:05: Like I can not stand to watch this

00:11:07: movie anymore.

00:11:08: it's so boring!

00:11:08: And you were

00:11:10: like yes you have ADHD and need to get on five ants

00:11:13: why?!

00:11:14: Well we had this episode where we tried to sort of like obliquely while talking about a sex scandal.

00:11:21: We try to understand what German humor is.

00:11:24: I think life's movie is really funny.

00:11:27: And the text is very, very important and it's basically like line after line-afterline.

00:11:33: It's these great quotes

00:11:36: Really

00:11:37: pleasurable sentences from a movie that sort of succeed themselves For example in that scene when they sit at Temple Overfeld.

00:11:47: The best friend character by the way I don't remember.

00:11:49: She's actually quite fine,

00:11:51: but

00:11:51: she says like in Tanya gets into this self-reflective self involved thing about writing and i shouldn't have done it... And she sits there like this!

00:12:01: Yeah

00:12:04: okay that's cute

00:12:06: jokes like this all the time.

00:12:08: Yeah, that's from the novel.

00:12:10: The novel is much funnier than I thought but also because i've read the novel and basically the film has this very classic adaptation problem which it just goes through.

00:12:22: the novel in cuts like scenes are too truncated.

00:12:27: so in a novel you get lots of texture pleasurable lines and pleasurable scenes.

00:12:36: They don't need to be the lack of-the relative lack of narrative, which is kind of what the novel's about.

00:12:42: It's boring because you don't like... The stakeslessness that is inherent in their relationship poisons the movie Because the movie it's like.

00:12:52: You don't understand why they're together Like he doesn't want right there together and then book its very clear Why?

00:12:57: There are two other I think but in the

00:12:58: film your life Like maybe it is the film this historicizing also an emotional mode.

00:13:07: An affect?

00:13:08: An effect that was a mode of the two thousand and tens or the late two thousand ten,s Or of a certain millennial generation.

00:13:15: but I think it does like typify And capture something That is significant.

00:13:21: not many people have been in touch with than that Many People Have lived.

00:13:25: i think that Was also The reason Why It Were so Triggering For These People.

00:13:29: I find it Just enjoyable to watch and very, very entertaining.

00:13:34: And I think the role of art is also to a certain degree to typify not caricature but sort-of like overstress this... Highlight!

00:13:47: ...highlight a certain significant trait about the culture?

00:13:52: Maybe the culture in social group that this movie can be applied too.

00:13:55: it's a small one

00:13:57: That's fine too.

00:13:57: I don't care about that, I love Berlin and the twenty-tenths.

00:14:00: So in this way it is an aesthetic success.

00:14:07: We could talk like.

00:14:09: you were going to accuse me of disliking the fact he was a web designer right?

00:14:14: And i think

00:14:16: also unfortunately a profession for the past.

00:14:18: Yes The function of his career.

00:14:23: There are several scenes where For some reason, the whole thing turns on an issue of web design.

00:14:32: And Allegro Pastel is I think like The Template or something?

00:14:35: No

00:14:35: he makes his birthday present to a girlfriend

00:14:43: and she

00:14:44: looks at it Maybe saying that she doesn't like

00:14:50: it.

00:14:50: But you actually know, this

00:14:52: is the beginning of a conflict.

00:14:54: Yeah but when I say

00:14:55: no She's unable to say yeah.

00:14:57: That's why i'm like.

00:14:58: It's not a Conflict.

00:14:59: So okay let's just Like.

00:15:00: This Is Actually The Important Turning Point Of The Film.

00:15:02: so Let' Just Take A Pause And Discuss For A Second.

00:15:06: You Know for her birth Her Thirtieth Birthday.

00:15:08: She Recalls She's A Writer.

00:15:09: She Writes About Kind Of Like Tech Involved People.

00:15:13: Um,

00:15:14: and he makes her strenuously over many weeks.

00:15:18: He makes her a personal website for her book.

00:15:22: And on her birthday they wake up They go into the kitchen in the laptop is open on the table.

00:15:28: This is like one of the best scenes movie but laptops off at that table.

00:15:31: then she looks at it um...and She just like inscrutable.

00:15:37: her reaction is inscrutable and of course like if you're an American person, You're like

00:15:41: oh my god.

00:15:42: Thank you

00:15:43: so much.

00:15:44: I love it!

00:15:45: Like Oh It's a sweet that you did it And he was just the first draft.

00:15:50: He doesn't do that though to be clear She looks at it inscrutably.

00:15:53: Then If don't like it i can change things.

00:15:56: This is just our first draft.

00:15:57: We work on this together.

00:15:58: This also frame for relationships.

00:16:00: I'm gonna present something But we could work with each other.

00:16:05: any input, she just acts weird.

00:16:10: And then he's like oh no the website.

00:16:12: I've done something terribly wrong.

00:16:14: and later they go to her thirtieth birthday dinner at what looks like Mazzinello.

00:16:19: it might be even Mazzinnello in the book?

00:16:21: It's his thirty-fourth.

00:16:23: Yes!

00:16:24: There is a huge number of lines also about this critical age Start.

00:16:32: things start to

00:16:33: repeat but with less intensity.

00:16:35: Yeah,

00:16:36: sorry for my mistake.

00:16:38: To the point I'm making.

00:16:39: it doesn't matter.

00:16:40: so the website like.

00:16:41: It's basically like a superficial Like kind of like screen-based gift

00:16:47: yeah

00:16:48: and then she didn't say anything about it.

00:16:50: Then they have this birthday dinner at what looks like Masino.

00:16:55: She's got all of her friends there.

00:16:57: It's like a big thing, and Jerome at some point says maybe to his sister or someone else what I gave him was that he made it on the website with weird tension.

00:17:06: then Tanya is like i wanna go home completely out of nowhere.

00:17:11: Completely mysterious one!

00:17:15: Yes she's very like.

00:17:15: you can say if you want too.

00:17:17: You have hyper sensitive people who are like this.

00:17:19: sometimes it struck me as realistic.

00:17:21: It totally strikes me as realistic, I'm not saying this is not realistic at all...I don't like the

00:17:27: movie.

00:17:28: That's my point!

00:17:28: This is a

00:17:30: great attempt of realism.

00:17:33: Relational realism?

00:17:34: Yeah

00:17:35: i think its totally true but..i dont' like the film.

00:17:39: that's different.

00:17:43: But the point I was gonna make about their relationship is like, she just randomly decides who's going

00:17:48: to go.

00:17:48: She's

00:17:49: a drama queen without creating scene but still being quite dramatic because there's no...she won't ever say it has this superficial.

00:18:00: It's like the figure of the website that he makes for her, which it

00:18:05: seems

00:18:06: superficial and it seems to be just on the screen but actually indicates a deep care.

00:18:12: And it indicates attempt to relate to her and give something really sweet.

00:18:22: It indicates some love.

00:18:26: The parallel is that she has this kind of like react just the sensitive negative reaction, which superficially seems kind of ridiculous or unfair unreasonable.

00:18:37: But actually also indicates her feelings for him because it's not like he hates.

00:18:41: website

00:18:43: and tragic movie in.

00:18:47: they will not get.

00:18:49: But let's maybe move to

00:18:51: the more

00:18:51: exciting things.

00:18:52: there are so many like open tabs in my mind about how to segue and one of them is actually you describe The Open laptop, the kitchen and breakfast scene.

00:19:02: And we have that in drama as well because Robert Pattinson character is composing his marriage speech And part of the movie is that a couple who are going to get married sitting together with their best friends, they're gonna be bride's maid.

00:19:22: The

00:19:22: bride?

00:19:22: The maid of honor.

00:19:23: and then what does it called...the Best Man Is What They Are Called.

00:19:26: Do You Want Me To Summarize It?

00:19:27: Because Of

00:19:29: My Culture?

00:19:30: Basically what happens is Robert Pattinson.

00:19:34: His character's name is Charlie, but let's call him Robert Pattinson because he's just Robert Pattison in every movie.

00:19:38: He plays and similarly Zendaya whose characters' name is Emma, but we'll just call her Zendya Our interrelationship.

00:19:44: they've been together for two years.

00:19:45: They're about to get married.

00:19:46: It's the week before their marriage And there test-they're trying menus at some fancy place with their two best friends and

00:19:52: skin contact orange wine

00:19:53: Their drinking skin contact Orange Wine?

00:19:55: They are kind of drunk.

00:19:56: And one thing leads to another and their friends say, oh before we got married.

00:20:01: We did a thing where we told each other the worst thing they've ever

00:20:03: done.".

00:20:04: Yeah?

00:20:04: They were like let's do it all together!

00:20:06: And Zendaya looks a little bit concerned...and then um..they all go around saying the worse things that have never been done.

00:20:13: Then Zendya says I almost did a mass shooting when i was fifteen.

00:20:20: That's like more worse than ours.

00:20:22: And as I said, it's a week before their wedding.

00:20:26: this is very expensive wedding also emotionally when you get married.

00:20:30: ideally This couple is sort of established to be good couples who love each other and are sweet.

00:20:36: Well they love eachother but i would say that they barely know eachother.

00:20:39: I don't

00:20:39: even think thats true.

00:20:40: Thats why its a betrayal.

00:20:42: he didn't know this before

00:20:47: Script writing.

00:20:48: it's great for the plot of the movie and I enjoyed the movie very much.

00:20:53: I think as much as The Life Runt Movie kept me sort like busy, and pleased with the quality of its text in the lines.

00:20:59: Um...I was pleased by the Boogli

00:21:04: movie.

00:21:05: No because It is extremely well edited.

00:21:08: The rhythm of the scenes, the way he sort like intertwines also flashbacks.

00:21:13: The aesthetics of it is all very good.

00:21:16: I think It's a really well done movie and iIthink its'a very pleasurable movie.

00:21:19: ,iThink Is A Very Funny Movie .

00:21:20: I Think Its'A Very Smart Contemporary Romantic Comedy Of Which There Are Not So Many.

00:21:25: Anymore

00:21:28: All Im Saying That It Rests On A Completely Unrealistic

00:21:32: Premise.

00:21:35: The success of the film is that the premise straddles, it's just on the border... ...of realistic.

00:21:41: It is just possible to imagine that happening.

00:21:45: and part of the discursive element of a film which has been criticized for Is ability debate whether the premise is realistic?

00:21:55: And under what conditions would be realistic It valid.

00:22:01: That's the

00:22:01: whole interest of the movie.

00:22:03: well, I think that's part of the compelling part of The Movie because i think the premise Of the movie fake.

00:22:08: it's like a fake twist Because this twist comes quite early in the film yeah and after the movie came out?

00:22:14: It was very hard to avoid learning what the twist Was gonna be Learning that like the big secret she reveals is actually almost committed a mass shooting when She was fifteen at her school And then the thing that's funny about it Is he asks for more questions About And it's not like she realized, oh this is actually morally wrong.

00:22:30: She was like well there was another mass shooting at the mall on that same day.

00:22:34: so I didn't do because someone had already done it and then over time It's

00:22:40: also not entirely clear why she would want.

00:22:46: Well,

00:22:46: that's what I think

00:22:47: is

00:22:48: it?

00:22:48: That was also realistic and interesting about

00:22:50: its more like she's into the aesthetics of shooting as

00:22:54: well.

00:22:54: so we learned

00:22:55: how to recording the confessional video this gonna be her famous moment of getting known to the world, The Manifesto and she can't record it because there's a pop-up window on her computer requesting some sort

00:23:10: update.

00:23:11: Yeah!

00:23:11: It is very funny film but when we're talking about the premise which is A Fake Twist right?

00:23:20: I love A Fake twist that was at the beginning of this movie.

00:23:22: Well i think its a fake relationship.

00:23:28: This is something that would be, I think completely unknown to the world of Allegro Pastel.

00:23:35: No one in Allegro Pasteur whatever like being anywhere near

00:23:41: a violent crime... But we know nothing about it!

00:23:44: We also don't know anything about each other and they do

00:23:48: not know

00:23:53: anything.

00:23:57: post-therapeutic world of Allegra Faustel, if there was some like huge traumatic element about their

00:24:07: pasts

00:24:08: they would talk about

00:24:09: it.

00:24:09: No!

00:24:09: They wouldn't...they barely talked at all.

00:24:14: And also the...this really irritated

00:24:20: me.

00:24:20: Anyways.

00:24:21: No

00:24:21: no stop stop stop.

00:24:23: we're gonna keep talking about this.

00:24:26: We are going to work.

00:24:29: To me, you have a very... in the drama.

00:24:32: She has a very shameful secret.

00:24:35: It's a very American secret.

00:24:37: it is a very foreign alien Secret to the kind of people that she is now around which is Robert Pattinson A very like posh

00:24:46: British guy working for the

00:24:48: what?

00:24:49: Boston Art Museum Yeah

00:24:51: whatever Cambridge something and Like his friends right And so she You know she's changed her life and so, in this relationship their relationships seems pretty good.

00:25:01: Pretty close.

00:25:03: but She could use something we only learn In the sort of like dramatic final scene at The wedding when?

00:25:17: fist fight with the-?

00:25:19: Oh

00:25:19: my God,

00:25:20: you're

00:25:20: adding to me elements of this conversation.

00:25:22: You need

00:25:22: us focus over on your... What I want say is that only at that moment we learn that Zendaya's character actually after having been tempted and almost attempted the school shooting becomes Chapter in her school.

00:25:42: Yes, so she completely misses the opportunity in the very beginning also to transform this story of her past into The success story and successful overcoming and becoming like an advocate for non-violence And against guns etc.

00:26:00: She doesn't even bother mentioning that.

00:26:02: well That's because she is being attacked.

00:26:07: I also don't want to talk about these people as if they're real.

00:26:08: People, i wanna Talk About this film As If it's a Film.

00:26:11: and what happens in the film which?

00:26:12: I think is What Makes It A good film Is that it Represents What Happens when There'S a Dramatic Secret That is Revealed under High-Pressure Circumstances And Everybody Is Looking for it To be Somebody's Fault.

00:26:24: The high Pressure of that Situation Means That Everyone Is More Likely to fuck up.

00:26:31: so Zendaya Doesn'T handle it Very Well.

00:26:34: She Keeps Vomiting out Of Nerves And she's really like, she's trying to atone and she's saying look let's talk about it.

00:26:41: The reason I didn't tell you is... She was trying be reasonable but Robert Pattinson is freaking out.

00:26:48: It's his right because he says what did i miss?

00:26:53: Were there signs that i missed that would have demonstrated her essentially violent character now?

00:27:05: sort of bloke male feminists, like she's never done anything wrong.

00:27:09: Like whatever I think Like, if we want to talk about an actual relationship just a sidebar like of course you're in an actual Relationship.

00:27:16: You should want To tell the person that your in love with like Your secrets and like you should want them to know About That stuff And you Should Want to hear within.

00:27:24: let Them process it With you Of Course ideally.

00:27:27: but thats not what The film is about.

00:27:28: The Film Is A Realistic Situation Where Someone Has A Dark Secret That They Reveal Under Highly Pressurized Circumstances.

00:27:36: Also The pressurized circumstance of planning a wedding fancy, like expensive wedding.

00:27:43: And then it's so.

00:27:44: this is already highly pressurized and Robert Pattinson spins out which also totally natural but the fact that he's freaking out means his acting increasingly erratically.

00:27:53: bizarrely.

00:27:54: there a very hilarious scene every one of theaters was laughing hysterical about where basically tries to talk to co-worker about um female co worker what going on does in kind veiled hypothetical way.

00:28:09: That's incredibly bizarre, like what's going on.

00:28:11: And then he tries to have sex with her and then he starts bursting into tears?

00:28:14: This is an example of how the pressure in this situation leads more antics than drama.

00:28:22: Yeah there isn't no de-escalation that it possible.

00:28:25: The film is so enjoyable because its a high intensity, high pressure situation.

00:28:34: the thing about it is like he's then goes back and thinks about scenes from their relationship, which are all represented very funnily in great editing.

00:28:45: And its really hilarious!

00:28:47: There're lots of things where she has road rage a little bit...and oh shes actually violent.

00:28:52: there was scene when they were having sex so she randomly slaps him.

00:28:56: why did you do that?

00:28:57: Now hes a violent person.

00:28:59: It's like a caricature, or it's like the heightened version of what really happens in our relationship.

00:29:03: Which is when you learn something about someone's past and love them And then your idea for that is forced to integrate this new knowledge Even if its just a cute little story from people who are eight years old.

00:29:17: You're like now.

00:29:18: my understanding has to be integrated with this information And I think they even say this in the film, like he says.

00:29:26: why didn't you tell me earlier?

00:29:28: Like i would have been more understanding but now.

00:29:29: Like I have to work this out into four days before our wedding and then that figure of their wedding speech which keeps editing re-editing is a really good example.

00:29:43: The principle of integration that I'm discussing Which it's trying to summarize something.

00:29:51: You can't summarize it, right?

00:29:53: It's a very complicated person.

00:29:55: My relationship to them is complicated And he would prefer it if was just simple and you can make fun of her laugh.

00:30:02: Yeah, yeah He asked his friend like should I talk about our sex life?

00:30:04: He's like bro.

00:30:05: no don't talk about your sex life.

00:30:06: That so weird but she is like But i love our sexlife.

00:30:08: You know what I mean Like...he wants to be an easy thing that you could summarize in a cute little wedding speech.

00:30:13: Then actually the secret comes In.

00:30:16: then makes it realistic.

00:30:18: relationship between complicated adults.

00:30:21: Yes its a heightened or highlighted version Of this is just on the border of realism.

00:30:28: And you are like, I could actually imagine that happening and i do think it's realistic The way that plays out even if its sort-of antique and absurd as well.

00:30:39: When I say realistic ,I think It Is Possible .It Could Happen.

00:30:43: I want to understand why the terms & premises of a relationship that I've displayed in the drama Are so different from the ones in Allegro, for example.

00:30:55: A lot has to do with expectations and norms about expressing drama and emotions.

00:31:02: And another thing is sort of like cultural defaults on how you deal with secrets and secrecy.

00:31:10: This might be just a very silly tiny-tiny aspect but both movies start with The Man Hitting On The Woman.

00:31:20: In both movies, it revolves around a book that the guys haven't read.

00:31:26: Pattinson sees Sundaya sitting in a cafe reading a book and then he starts talking to her about their book and pretends like oh its such great books.

00:31:39: He looks at up on Goodreads and says how much she loves this book You gotta be so silly as a guy to pretend and then he doubles down on it.

00:31:56: Anyways, just let me make my point.

00:32:01: the way that Jerome and Tanya meet each other is that Jerome goes through reading of Tanya, Tanya has this writer in the movie.

00:32:12: your book sounds great.

00:32:13: It's been recommended to me so many times that I almost don't want to read it, i haven't read it yet and still he gets this thing at

00:32:20: sure.".

00:32:21: So we also hasn't read her book but she is open about it!

00:32:23: Who cares?

00:32:25: That not important?

00:32:27: like Robert Pattinson confesses... they go on their first date and she's like, so what's your favorite part of the book?

00:32:35: He confesses

00:32:35: after a couple glasses of wine.

00:32:37: in the very end when he can't hold his plot together anymore because it becomes apparent that... Oh my

00:32:41: God!

00:32:41: You're just you are... No.

00:32:44: What I'm saying is- It's cute!

00:32:45: There ain't nothing wrong with that.

00:32:46: But what i'm saying Is That its'a different way of pretending In hiding a secret Or being super open And sort of post dramatic about as In the other movie.

00:32:59: I will say one of my bet like, One of my most like purest nicest relationships in my life when i was Twenty until i was twenty three and we're so very good friends began with The guy just blatantly lying to me about basically his entire

00:33:16: life.

00:33:18: And Like Basically i Was in berlin visiting for the first time When i was two years old?

00:33:28: charming British guy, just like Robert Pattinson.

00:33:30: And we started flirting and I start talking to him about poetry because i was studying English literature...and he knew all this stuff about English Literature!

00:33:35: He said yeah..I went to Oxford and did THIS, THEN THIS AND THIS....and then we had a wonderful night together.

00:33:40: Just talk, talk ,talk ,talk about literature all night!

00:33:43: And then, you know I left Berlin and we emailed a bunch.

00:33:45: Then i looked him up on the internet.

00:33:47: This says that he went to some other university.

00:33:50: You studied something else.

00:33:51: It seems like you kind of lied about all this stuff.

00:33:54: He was like.

00:33:54: I know!

00:33:54: I'm sorry it's because in the pub crawl We always lie.

00:33:57: So im very sympathetic To your putting moves onto someone But now

00:34:04: they're real.

00:34:09: I mean would i have married him like when?

00:34:10: When, I met.

00:34:11: Him when i was twenty.

00:34:12: no we're not married.

00:34:13: you Would've found out in the process of preparing a marriage.

00:34:15: well he confessed.

00:34:18: He confessed it's totally fine.

00:34:19: there's nothing wrong with that.

00:34:20: i think It's Not even Like Zendaya has done something Wrong by not Confessing earlier.

00:34:25: what's interesting is That it doesn't seem like it bothered her until it came up that she that he didn't know this.

00:34:31: Because when i Have things so like i'm in love With someone And I want them to know everything about me, and I want him to want to know.

00:34:39: To care about these things... ...and feel the same way that they do.

00:34:42: Like what's gone on in your life?

00:34:43: Why are you like this or how does it feel?

00:34:45: So for my point of view- The more interesting question is also realistic because a lot couples don't feel that way.

00:34:53: A lot of couples think they really don't wanna take care!

00:34:57: They just don't want to tell themselves.

00:35:00: So I think it's totally reasonable and possible that some kind of secret like this would just come out accidentally, because i think its not a given people thinking about their lives in an almost very deep way as necessary part relationship.

00:35:25: And I think most people don't have secrets like that.

00:35:28: They've done nothing interesting, they've done something complicated... Most people are kind of boring so maybe they won't talk about their lives because there's not much to say!

00:35:37: What is interesting in the drama?

00:35:38: Is it deep trauma from the past

00:35:42: or character

00:35:42: etc.. Yeah no i agree.

00:35:44: and then thats what I like about this.

00:35:46: She almost accidentally gets into the aesthetics of school shooting and then also seems to be getting out this phase her childhood or adolescence quite well by becoming an advocate for anti-gun movement.

00:36:05: And it's funny because in a scene where she flips, stops wanting to scheme for shooting group of students sitting around and there's some guy, she probably finds a bit charming who says oh I think you have the best face for it.

00:36:21: You should be our advocate!

00:36:22: You should.

00:36:28: That she's good enough and that sort of like giving her the confirmation.

00:36:31: She needed And she is in the center of the attention for changing the side.

00:36:35: Yeah,

00:36:36: I think it's funny.

00:36:36: It's also subverting these trauma narratives Which some of my least favorite reviewers Of all time Richard Brody For example complaining about how you know, Zendaya always has to be a receptacle for male directors like visions of trauma.

00:36:53: And I'm like she literally doesn't... She isn't traumatized by this at all!

00:36:56: Like she's actually saying that i am not trying- You know?

00:36:59: Yeah

00:36:59: it is as if the film can afford making the obvious points about his political tangent and having sort of random element in him.

00:37:10: Because he knows what you think about school shootings.

00:37:13: He knows what your thinking about trauma like.

00:37:17: the way-the reason why The Premise, this sort of weighty premise works so well is because it comes quite early.

00:37:26: The twist where she either reveals...it's not even really a twist.

00:37:29: It comes quite earlier.

00:37:29: and then the fallout from it, not about The Secret itself.

00:37:35: It's about what does The Secret do to people and basically makes them insane!

00:37:40: There are lots of really good puns.

00:37:42: there is a lot of really great jokes like this kind of antique romantic comedy version of Festin by Vinterberg or some other movies And you know actually that thing in the movie why its also compelling.

00:37:58: you want to know, are they gonna end up together?

00:38:00: And it's also so.

00:38:01: It's a subversion of like the regular romantic comedy where you're like.

00:38:06: I really want this couple to get together.

00:38:08: that's like classic Romantic Comedy plot.

00:38:10: This is why but- They do ended up together.

00:38:12: But The plot Is nice because You're Like.

00:38:14: Are they Gonna Break Up?

00:38:15: and i don't even Know if they should break up Because its such A fast paced movie!

00:38:18: You Don't have Time To kind Of Process About What Do You Think.

00:38:21: Should They Breakup Or Not Like Your Kind In With Them?

00:38:24: And This Also Why I think Its Very Successful twist on the genre.

00:38:30: When you told me that you wanted to do an episode about these two films together, I really liked The Pairing because they are kind of mirror images in some strange like bizarro way.

00:38:40: but i'm wondering if we can even extract any generalizations about the meaning of relationships today from comparing them or if that's even productive?

00:38:55: Like why did you want a pair of them?

00:38:57: Why did I want to pair them?

00:39:00: Both movies are sort of like antithetical in so many interesting ways, whether it's about marriage commitment and engaging.

00:39:08: It's about how you deal with secrets.

00:39:09: the secrets have.

00:39:20: No, they could.

00:39:22: They had to sit down over the skin contact orange wine She would never have revealed it and you know Have come out at a later point of marriage.

00:39:32: So in that way these two movies came from very different worlds of how we process relationships And I actually wonder... I think drama also is in terms of like The cinematic quality a better movie.

00:39:48: It's clearly like bigger production, et cetera and it is already box office success that going to be in the movies which are almost all over the world.

00:40:00: but do you think that Allegro Pastel can travel internationally?

00:40:04: I don't know people who have not lived in Europe will even understand.

00:40:10: No, because I don't think it rises to the level of European art house film either.

00:40:14: Like in terms of like aesthetically formally i don't Think that's interesting with a film?

00:40:18: I think both films Demonstrate the limits Of those Codes approaches and codes for love Right And do so In ways That Reflect Those Limits Very Clearly.

00:40:40: the drama, it's like what?

00:40:41: Like you know.

00:40:43: The pressure of...the marriage plot and the pressure of the marriage institution creates all the problems actually or you could argue that in Allegro Pastel-like a complete lack structure what you might call freedom of their lives also creates all the problems.

00:41:09: Okay, if we wanted to expand our watch list and watched some more movies that can relate What would we recommend?

00:41:23: The obvious film to watch in conversation, that the drama is kind of in conversation with.

00:41:29: It's Festan by Thomas Vinterberg, Dogma-Ninety Five director... Is

00:41:35: it about a marriage?

00:41:36: ...It's not about a wedding.

00:41:37: I think its like a celebration

00:41:40: A milestone

00:41:41: or birthday, patriarchal birthday thing and much darker but one of the great movies, you know.

00:41:51: It's a great movie and definitely an influence on this

00:41:55: in... On Christopher Borley who also is Scandinavian we have not discussed

00:41:58: it yet?

00:41:58: We're talking about

00:42:01: Scandinavia first of all!

00:42:03: He's Norwegian.

00:42:03: yeah he's

00:42:04: Norwegian but you.

00:42:08: so that is your recommendation.

00:42:09: okay

00:42:09: I

00:42:10: will go for a German movie.

00:42:14: I love it, so good.

00:42:19: Starring a great and young Lars Eilinger and Birgit Minnichmeyer who have a real dramatic conversational breakdown of their relationship while hiking in Sardinia.

00:42:30: It's such a good movie!

00:42:33: Don't tell me Germans can do drama?

00:42:36: I never said that...I think you guys are incredibly dramatic!

00:42:42: So Life Runt is the exception.

00:42:44: that proves the rule.

00:42:46: Yeah, I think

00:42:47: so.

00:42:47: Thanks Lauren and see you soon again!

00:42:51: Bye!

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00:43:35: This episode was edited by Kayden

00:43:38: Roberts

00:43:39: with National Assignment.

00:43:41: We'll be back another episode soon.

00:43:43: until then I'm Tobias Harbourkorn editor of Belinda.